Daf 74a
אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ אָמַר רַב טַבַּעַת שֶׁל עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁנִּתְעָרְבָה בְּמֵאָה טַבָּעוֹת וְנָפְלָה אַחַת מֵהֶם לַיָּם הַגָּדוֹל הוּתְּרוּ כּוּלָּן דְּאָמְרִינַן הָךְ דִּנְפַל הַיְינוּ דְּאִיסּוּרָא
וְכִי תֵּימָא שָׁאנֵי לֵיהּ לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֵּין עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה לִשְׁאָר אִיסּוּרִים אֶלָּא הָא דְּתַנְיָא סְפֵק עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה אֲסוּרָה וּסְפֵק סְפֵיקָהּ מוּתֶּרֶת מַנִּי לָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה וְלָא רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן
שְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמַר כְּמַאן אִי כְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה אֲפִילּוּ בִּשְׁאָר אִיסּוּרִים אָסוּר אִי כְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אֲפִילּוּ בַּעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה נָמֵי שְׁרֵי
רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן לְרִיבּוֹא אֲסוּרִין וּמֵרִיבּוֹא לִשְׁלֹשָׁה וּמִשְּׁלֹשָׁה לְמָקוֹם אַחֵר מוּתָּר
תַּנָּאֵי הִיא דְּתַנְיָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר רִימּוֹנֵי בָאדָן אוֹסְרִין בְּכָל שֶׁהוּא כֵּיצַד נָפַל אֶחָד מֵהֶן לְתוֹךְ רִיבּוֹא וּמֵרִיבּוֹא לְרִיבּוֹא אֲסוּרִין
מֵיתִיבִי סְפֵק עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה אֲסוּרָה וּסְפֵק סְפֵיקָהּ מוּתֶּרֶת כֵּיצַד כּוֹס שֶׁל עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁנָּפַל לְאוֹצָר מָלֵא כּוֹסוֹת כּוּלָּן אֲסוּרִין פֵּירַשׁ אֶחָד מֵהֶן לְרִיבּוֹא וּמֵרִיבּוֹא לְרִיבּוֹא מוּתָּרִין
כִּי אַמְרִיתַהּ קַמֵּיהּ דִּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר לִי הַנַּח לַעֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁסְּפֵיקָהּ וּסְפֵק סְפֵיקָהּ אֲסוּרָה עַד סוֹף הָעוֹלָם
מַאי שְׁנָא אַחַת מֵאַרְבָּעִים דְּלָא דְּאָמְרִינַן אִיסּוּרָא בְּרוּבָּא אִיתֵיהּ אַחַת מִשִּׁשִּׁים נָמֵי אָמְרִינַן אִיסּוּרָא בְּרוּבָּא אִיתֵיהּ אֶלָּא אִם פֵּרְשׁוּ אַרְבָּעִים כּוּלָּן לְמָקוֹם אֶחָד אֵין אוֹסְרוֹת שִׁשִּׁים לְמָקוֹם אֶחָד אוֹסְרוֹת
אָמַר רַב טַבַּעַת שֶׁל עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה שֶׁנִּתְעָרְבָה בְּמֵאָה טַבָּעוֹת וּפֵרְשׁוּ אַרְבָּעִים לְמָקוֹם אֶחָד וְשִׁשִּׁים לְמָקוֹם אַחֵר פֵּרְשָׁה אַחַת מֵאַרְבָּעִים אֵינָהּ אוֹסֶרֶת אַחַת מִשִּׁשִּׁים אוֹסֶרֶת
וְהָא אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר לֹא הִתִּיר רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אֶלָּא שְׁנַיִם שְׁנַיִם אֲבָל אֶחָד אֶחָד לָא אֲמַר לֵיהּ אֲנָא תַּרְתֵּי קָאָמֵינָא
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב דְּאָמַר כְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר דִּתְנַן רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר אִם קָרַב הָרֹאשׁ שֶׁל אֶחָד מֵהֶן יִקְרְבוּ כָּל הָרָאשִׁים כּוּלָּן
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רָבָא לְרַב נַחְמָן אֲפִילּוּ אַחַת בְּרִיבּוֹא יָמוּתוּ כּוּלָּן אַמַּאי נֵימָא דְּמִית אִיסּוּרָא מִית
לְעוֹלָם רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן וּשְׁמוּאֵל סָבַר לַהּ כְּרַבִּי יְהוּדָה בַּחֲדָא וּפְלִיג עֲלֵיהּ בַּחֲדָא
הוּא דְּאָמַר כְּחָנָן הַמִּצְרִי דְּתַנְיָא חָנָן הַמִּצְרִי אוֹמֵר אֲפִילּוּ דָּם בְּכוֹס מֵבִיא חֲבֵירוֹ וּמְזַוֵּוג לוֹ
וּתְנַן רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר אִם קָרַב הָרֹאשׁ שֶׁל אֶחָד מֵהֶן יִקְרְבוּ כָּל הָרָאשִׁים
אָמַר מָר מֵרִיבּוֹא לִשְׁלֹשָׁה וּמִשְּׁלֹשָׁה לְמָקוֹם אַחֵר מוּתָּר
yet we learnt, R. Eliezer said: If he offered the head of one of them, all the heads must be offered? (1) — He ruled in accordance with Hanan the Egyptian. For it was taught: Hanan the Egyptian said: Even if the blood is in the cup, he brings its companion and pairs it. (2) R. Nahman said in the name of Rabbah b. Abbuha [in Rab's name]: (3) If a ring of idolatry (4) was mixed up with a hundred rings, and one of them fell into the Great Sea, (5) all are permitted, because we say: The one which fell was the one which was forbidden. (6) Raba raised an objection to R. Nahman: EVEN ONE IN TEN THOUSAND, ALL MUST BE LEFT TO DIE. Yet why so; let us say that the first which dies is the forbidden one? Said he to him: Rab ruled in accordance with R. Eliezer, for we learnt: R. Eliezer said: if he offered the head of one of them, all the heads may be offered. (7) But surely R. Eleazar (8) said: R. Eliezer permitted [them to be offered] only in twos, (9) but not singly? — I also meant in twos, (10) he replied. Rab said: (11) If a ring of idolatry was mixed up with a hundred rings, and forty of them [were] detached to one place, and sixty to another: if one [was] detached from the forty, it does not forbid [others]; (12) if one [was detached] from the sixty, it renders [others] forbidden. Why is one from forty different? [presumably] because we say, The forbidden [article] is among the majority? Then [in the case of] one from sixty too we must say, The forbidden [article] is in the majority? (13) Rather [this is what he said]: If the forty were all separated to one place, they do not render [others] forbidden; (14) [if] sixty [were detached] to one place, they render [others] forbidden. (15) When I stated this before Samuel, he said to me: Leave idolatry alone, for a doubt therein and a double doubt are forbidden for all time. (16) An objection is raised: The doubt of idolatry is forbidden, but a double doubt is permitted. How so? If a goblet of idolatry fell into a storeroom filled with goblets, all are forbidden. If one of these was detached and mixed up with ten thousand, and from the ten thousand [one was detached into] ten thousand, they are permitted? (17) — It is a controversy of Tannaim. For it was taught, R. Judah said: pomegranates of Badan, however small their proportion, render [others] forbidden. How so? If one of them fell into ten thousand, and [one] of the ten thousand into [another] ten thousand, all are forbidden. R. Simeon b. Judah said on R. Simeon's authority: [If it fell] into ten thousand, they are forbidden; but [if one] of the ten thousand [fell] into three, and [one] of the three [fell] among others, (18) they are permitted . (19) In accordance with whom did Samuel rule? If in accordance with R. Judah, it is forbidden even in the case of other interdicts? (20) If in accordance with R. Simeon, then even in the case of idolatry too [a double doubt] is permitted? And should you say, R. Simeon allows a distinction between idolatry and other interdicts; then when it was taught, ‘A doubt of idolatry is forbidden, but a double doubt is permitted,’ who is its author? it is neither R. Judah nor R. Simeon? — In truth [the author of this is] R. Simeon, and he permits in the case of idolatry too, (21) while Samuel agrees with R. Judah in one matter, but disagrees in another. (22) The master said: ‘[If one] of the ten thousand [fell] into three, and [one]’ of the three [fell] among others, they are permitted.’
(1). ↑ V. infra 77b. Though had the priest asked, we would have instructed him not to offer any.
(2). ↑ V. supra 34b.
(3). ↑ Sh. M. deletes ‘in Rab's name’.
(4). ↑ One which adorned an idol; all benefit thereof is forbidden, and it is not neutralized when it is mixed up with any number of others, all of which become forbidden (supra 71b).
(5). ↑ Probably the Mediterranean. Of course, the same applies, to any place where it is lost.
(6). ↑ We make this lenient assumption.
(7). ↑ Thus the first is assumed to have been the forbidden one.
(8). ↑ The Amora.
(9). ↑ Where one is definitely not forbidden, and so we assume the same about the other.
(10). ↑ The remaining rings must be sold in twos.
(11). ↑ Marginal emendation: Rab Judah said in Rab's name.
(12). ↑ If it became mixed up with others. ‘Separated’ in the whole passage means accidentally.
(13). ↑ I.e., the remaining fifty nine.
(14). ↑ If these forty were mixed up with others, because we assume that the forbidden one is in the sixty. If they were not mixed up with others, they would remain forbidden, for the forbidden ring cannot be nullified in the majority, and even R. Eliezer permits a lenient assumption only where an article is lost or destroyed, as where the head of one of them is offered. Nevertheless, when the forty are mixed up with others, all are permitted, because now there is a double doubt concerning each ring: Firstly, the forty may not have contained the forbidden one at all; and secondly, even if they did, each one of the present mixed group may not be of the forty. Hence they are all permitted.
(15). ↑ Because we assume that the forbidden one is in the majority, and so now there is only a single doubt concerning each ring: whether it is the forbidden one or not. Therefore we must adopt a rigorous ruling.
(16). ↑ No matter how slight the doubt, it is always forbidden. Thus even in the case of forty they render others forbidden.
(17). ↑ This contradicts Samuel. — It is not clear why this second clause, ‘and from the ten thousand into ten thousand’ is necessary, for since a double doubt is permitted, when one of the storeroom is mixed up with the first ten thousand, the latter should be permitted. Sh. M. suggests that the first ten thousand are permitted, but they may not be all used simultaneously, for then we have only a single doubt, whether the one from the storeroom was the goblet of idolatry or not. (He rejects the explanation, given by Tosaf. in the next passage, that the second ten thousand is mentioned to show that he who forbids, forbids even then, as inapplicable here since no view forbidding these is expressed in this Baraitha at all. Nevertheless, it is possible that the Baraitha is a fragment, the other half being lost even in Talmudic times, and so the Talmud cites it as a refutation of Samuel.)
(18). ↑ Lit., ‘into another place’.
(19). ↑ Rashi: both the first three and the others, because there is a double doubt in connection with both. Tosaf.: the first three may not all be enjoyed simultaneously (v. n. 2.). The number three is discussed anon.
(20). ↑ Since R. Judah's ruling does not refer particularly to idolatry.
(21). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.).
(22). ↑ He agrees that a double doubt of idolatry is forbidden, but does not apply it to other interdicts, as does R. Judah.
(1). ↑ V. infra 77b. Though had the priest asked, we would have instructed him not to offer any.
(2). ↑ V. supra 34b.
(3). ↑ Sh. M. deletes ‘in Rab's name’.
(4). ↑ One which adorned an idol; all benefit thereof is forbidden, and it is not neutralized when it is mixed up with any number of others, all of which become forbidden (supra 71b).
(5). ↑ Probably the Mediterranean. Of course, the same applies, to any place where it is lost.
(6). ↑ We make this lenient assumption.
(7). ↑ Thus the first is assumed to have been the forbidden one.
(8). ↑ The Amora.
(9). ↑ Where one is definitely not forbidden, and so we assume the same about the other.
(10). ↑ The remaining rings must be sold in twos.
(11). ↑ Marginal emendation: Rab Judah said in Rab's name.
(12). ↑ If it became mixed up with others. ‘Separated’ in the whole passage means accidentally.
(13). ↑ I.e., the remaining fifty nine.
(14). ↑ If these forty were mixed up with others, because we assume that the forbidden one is in the sixty. If they were not mixed up with others, they would remain forbidden, for the forbidden ring cannot be nullified in the majority, and even R. Eliezer permits a lenient assumption only where an article is lost or destroyed, as where the head of one of them is offered. Nevertheless, when the forty are mixed up with others, all are permitted, because now there is a double doubt concerning each ring: Firstly, the forty may not have contained the forbidden one at all; and secondly, even if they did, each one of the present mixed group may not be of the forty. Hence they are all permitted.
(15). ↑ Because we assume that the forbidden one is in the majority, and so now there is only a single doubt concerning each ring: whether it is the forbidden one or not. Therefore we must adopt a rigorous ruling.
(16). ↑ No matter how slight the doubt, it is always forbidden. Thus even in the case of forty they render others forbidden.
(17). ↑ This contradicts Samuel. — It is not clear why this second clause, ‘and from the ten thousand into ten thousand’ is necessary, for since a double doubt is permitted, when one of the storeroom is mixed up with the first ten thousand, the latter should be permitted. Sh. M. suggests that the first ten thousand are permitted, but they may not be all used simultaneously, for then we have only a single doubt, whether the one from the storeroom was the goblet of idolatry or not. (He rejects the explanation, given by Tosaf. in the next passage, that the second ten thousand is mentioned to show that he who forbids, forbids even then, as inapplicable here since no view forbidding these is expressed in this Baraitha at all. Nevertheless, it is possible that the Baraitha is a fragment, the other half being lost even in Talmudic times, and so the Talmud cites it as a refutation of Samuel.)
(18). ↑ Lit., ‘into another place’.
(19). ↑ Rashi: both the first three and the others, because there is a double doubt in connection with both. Tosaf.: the first three may not all be enjoyed simultaneously (v. n. 2.). The number three is discussed anon.
(20). ↑ Since R. Judah's ruling does not refer particularly to idolatry.
(21). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.).
(22). ↑ He agrees that a double doubt of idolatry is forbidden, but does not apply it to other interdicts, as does R. Judah.
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